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Weed for Sleep? Wake + Bake Podcast Episode 205

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In today’s episode, ‘Cannabis and Sleep’, we’re going on a wild ride.

Join us on a mind-bending journey through the intricacies of the human brain as we explore the age-old question: Can cannabis really help you sleep better? Your co-hosts, Andrea Meharg and Corinne Tobias, are your guides on this “magic school bus” style adventure into the body’s inner workings.

In this episode, we’ll delve deep into the structures of the brain that play a crucial role in both falling asleep and staying asleep. Along the way, we’ll unravel the mysteries of how and why cannabis might be considered a sleep aid- and we’ll address some of the potential pitfalls. Is it a dreamy solution or just a pipe dream?

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Get ready to unlock the secrets of the slumbering mind, as we navigate the terrain of neurobiology and cannabis science.

Whether you’re a cannabis enthusiast or simply curious about the potential benefits of this fascinating plant, you won’t want to miss this illuminating episode. Tune in to Wake + Bake EP 205 and let’s explore the relationship between weed and sleep together!

Show Resource Links: W

IN AN ARDENT and a Scholarship to the Certified Cannabis Educator Program in November 2023: https://wakeandbake.co/cannabis-welln…

Become a Certified Cannabis Educator in as little as 12 Weeks and get paid to talk and write about cannabis: cannabiscoachinginstitute.com/ccep

Download the CBD Tracker in this post: https://wakeandbake.co/cannabis-track…

Use the code WAKEANDBAKE for $30 off at Ardent Cannabis: https://wakeandbake.co/ardent-cannabis

Visit Andrea at Reveal Cannabis: www.revealcannabis.com

Email us with questions and requests at [email protected]

Welcome, dear readers, to our captivating exploration of the relationship between cannabis and sleep. In this blog post, we’ll take you on a journey through the intriguing science that underlies the use of cannabis, weed, or marijuana for sleep. Get ready for an informative ride, and stay tuned as we delve into the magical world of slumber-enhancing remedies.

The Enigma of Sleep

Have you ever pondered why sleep continues to be one of the most enigmatic processes in the human body? We’re all fixated on it, eagerly trying out various solutions such as mouth tape, nose strips, eye masks, and supplements—all in pursuit of a peaceful night’s rest. The truth is, even when we set cannabis aside, the science of sleep remains veiled in mystery. It’s an essential process that profoundly affects our mental and physical well-being, as well as our relationships.

Assessing the Nerdiness Scale

Before we immerse ourselves in the world of cannabis and its impact on sleep, let’s establish some context. At the Wake and Bake Podcast, we like to gauge the depth of our exploration with a “nerdiness scale.” Think of it as akin to the whimsical Magic School Bus—an attempt to make complex subjects accessible to a broad audience.

Our topic today, the use of cannabis, weed, or marijuana for sleep, falls somewhere between five and six on the nerdiness scale. Our aim is for you to leave not only with knowledge but with a vivid comprehension of what unfolds when cannabis becomes your ally in the quest for better sleep. If you haven’t already, consider perusing our episode on the endocannabinoid system, as it lays the foundation for our discussion.

A Journey into the Brain

To grasp how cannabis influences sleep, join us on an imaginative journey into the brain. Picture yourself exploring the cerebral landscape of our friend Andrea, surrounded by cannabinoid receptors. These receptors play a pivotal role in the endocannabinoid system, a complex network responsible for maintaining equilibrium within the body’s various systems.

As we begin our voyage, we traverse the hippocampus, the region where daily experiences metamorphose into memories and knowledge. It’s brimming with cannabinoid receptors, although it doesn’t take center stage in the realm of sleep regulation.

Our next destination is the basal ganglia, a region teeming with receptors believed to influence our wakefulness and sleepiness. This area can be activated by various factors such as caffeine, excessive screen time, or stress, potentially upsetting our sleep-wake balance.

Continuing our journey, we arrive at the cerebellum, densely populated with cannabinoid receptors. This region is thought to play a role in the transition to sleep and is also linked to language and thoughts. An overactive cerebellum could keep us awake with a racing mind.

Our exploration takes us further to the dorsal spinal cord regions, where the brain processes information about pain. Sleep can be elusive when one is in pain. Fortunately, the brainstem, which oversees vital life processes like heartbeats and breathing, boasts very few cannabinoid receptors. Thus, even with a substantial dose of THC, there’s no mortal peril.

The Enchanting Effects of Cannabis

Now, let’s delve into the fascinating world of cannabinoids and their effects when introduced to the brain. Suppose Andrea decides to turn to CBD, cannabis, weed, or marijuana for sleep. If she discovers the right dosage, more of her natural endocannabinoids will interact with receptors, creating balance and potentially improving her sleep.

Conversely, if she chooses THC, a frequently utilized cannabinoid for sleep, and finds the appropriate dose, it mimics her body’s natural equilibrium, guiding her gently into slumber. However, it’s crucial to bear in mind that cannabis is not a one-size-fits-all remedy.

Achieving the right dosage is paramount. If Andrea doesn’t strike the perfect balance, she may grapple with entering or sustaining the REM (rapid eye movement) sleep cycle—a pivotal component of restorative rest. An excessive intake of THC can also result in grogginess upon waking, despite having enjoyed a full night’s sleep.

Striking the Balance

In conclusion, cannabis, whether it’s in the form of CBD or THC, holds promise as a sleep aid. Yet, it’s no magic bullet. Prudent and occasional use is recommended while actively working to naturally harmonize your endocannabinoid system.

Sleep remains an enigmatic process, and while we can illuminate its intricacies, uncovering the ideal sleep solution often entails a bit of trial and error.

So, as you embark on your personal journey toward better sleep, remember that the interplay between cannabis and slumber is a captivating one, filled with mysteries awaiting discovery. Sweet dreams await!

EP 205 Transcript

EP 205 – Cannabis and Sleep 

 This week on the Wake + Bake podcast. 

Andrea Meharg: I’m so excited to watch you be Ms. Frizzle. 

Corinne Tobias: as Ms. Frizzle, I would like to invite you all to come on my Magic School Bus while we go inside of the brain to see why cannabis might work for sleep and how it works in the human brain when we’re trying to fall and stay asleep. 

Andrea Meharg: The endocannabinoid system of course is intimately involved in our sleep wake cycle and regulating sleep. 

Corinne Tobias: And then we’ll be like, I’m getting into my pod now and I’m going to be sleeping and you’re just, and then your mind just quiets down.

Andrea Meharg: Terrifying.

And I also want to say take that opiates because the brainstem is filled with opiate receptors, which is why you can die of an overdose of those types of medications.

Corinne Tobias: Hit the road opiates, we’ve got a new friend in town.

Andrea Meharg: I’m just spinning on like happy thoughts and I’ve got like all these plans and stuff

Corinne Tobias: all of these beautiful gifts and tuning into what they are and allowing those to expand within your own body by using your own attention, by being your own Miss Frizzle, by getting on your own Magic school Bus, as you’re going to sleep and tuning into what’s actually happening

Andrea Meharg: That sounds wonderful. Like I want to do that all the time. 

Corinne Tobias: Not so fast, Andrea. 

 Welcome lovely listeners to another exciting episode of the wake and bake podcast. I’m your host, Corinne Tobias. And joining me is my lovely cohost, Andrea Meharg

Corinne Tobias: say hi. Hi everybody. Now today we’re doing things a little bit differently. Usually, I get to ask Andrea all the nerdy cannabis science questions and she does all the research and she tells us all of the nerdy things, but today we are diving down into one of my favorite rabbit holes cannabis and sleep and we are going to make a lifelong dream of mine come true.

I’m so excited about this today. Are you excited, Andrea? 

Andrea Meharg: I’m so excited to watch you be Ms. Frizzle. 

Corinne Tobias: Yes. I get to be Ms. Frizzle today because as more people turn to cannabis for potential sleep benefits, it’s essential to understand the science behind it. And unfortunately, just like so many things in cannabis, the science leaves a little bit to be desired here.

And so we could have gone on and had the conversation we normally have. We go, well, this study shows this and this study shows this. And what does it all mean? But instead as Ms. Frizzle, I would like to invite you all to come on my Magic School Bus while we go inside of the brain to see why cannabis might work for sleep and how it works in the human brain when we’re trying to fall and stay asleep.

 I think one of the things that we need to address here is that currently, even if you take cannabis out of the whole equation, sleep is still one of the most mysterious processes in the human body.

 And we’re obsessed with it, right? Like I currently have mouth tape, I’ve got nose strips, you’ve got eye mask, you take magnesium, you know, like there are so many things that are being sold to you specifically to improve and enhance your sleep.

Andrea Meharg: It’s so true. And without sleep, your whole life goes to shit, right? Like it’s so integral to everything that you’re doing. And it changes on the daily. You’re in pain one day, you can’t sleep. You got in a fight with your partner. You can’t sleep. Like you can’t control all the, all the things for sleep. 

Corinne Tobias: No.

Wouldn’t that be nice. And then we’ll be like, I’m getting into my pod now and I’m going to be sleeping and you’re just, and then your mind just quiets down. This is a future that I live in. 

Andrea Meharg: Terrifying.

Corinne Tobias: I’m like, just put me to sleep every night, plug me into whatever sound waves, you know, but like, it is, it is true. It’s interesting. Like there’s this obsession with it. We don’t really know much about it. It’s constantly changing. And it’s one of the most important elements of your health and of your mental health and your physical health, your relationships suffer.

It colors your entire view of what life is. So this is obviously a big topic to tackle.

Andrea Meharg: Okay. So Ms. Frizzle on this season of the Wake and Bake Podcast, we’re giving each of our episodes a nerdiness scale on how nerdy is this? So I’m so curious. Is this going to be like super nerdy or like, where is this going to fall?

Corinne Tobias: I hope it’s the level of nerdy. That most Magic School Bus episodes are like, I, I still remember learning about the digestive system. And I remember that there was some pretty complex stuff going on in that particular episode. And I want it to be like that. I want you to be able to visualize what’s happening in these very complex and somewhat mysterious systems in a way that you could explain it to a five year old. So if I were going to put it on a scale, I’d say it’s like a five or six. And if you haven’t already listened to our episode on the endocannabinoid system, maybe do that one first. But I, my hope is that if we do this, right. You’re going to be able to leave, not just saying, Oh, I have some facts about cannabis and sleep, but you’re going to be able to imagine what’s happening if you use cannabis for sleep, which I think is really cool. 

Andrea Meharg: Yeah. So the endocannabinoid system, it is a complex system of receptors and molecules and enzymes, and they together play a crucial role in maintaining balance in all of our other systems. This is often called homeostasis and the endocannabinoid system of course is intimately involved in our sleep wake cycle and regulating sleep. 

Corinne Tobias: Yeah, absolutely.

It’s a very important process. And I don’t want you to just know that as a thought, but let’s imagine it. How exactly is it intertwined with the sleep wake process? So imagine Andrea is trying to fall asleep and we’re in our Magic School Bus, winding around all of these folds and turns in her beautiful, mysterious brain and in almost every area that we’re passing through we’re seeing cannabinoid receptors. They’re all over the place. They are, they’re almost everywhere in the brain.

Right? So right now we’re passing by the hippocampus and this is where all the things that Andrea has learned that day are getting processed into memories and knowledge. 

It’s where all of the things that Andrea has experienced that day become real for her. It’s where she can wake up the next day and recall what happened the day before. Right? So the hippocampus is a really incredible part of the brain. And when we’re looking hippocampus. There are a ton of these cannabinoid receptors in there, right?

Now this part isn’t super important right now. The hippocampus is cool, but it’s not the most important part when it comes to sleep and falling asleep. So we’re going to move on, but we’re going to come back to that later.

 So now we’re passing through the basal ganglia, which is also chock full of these receptors and scientists think may play a huge role in our sleep wake cycle. And a big part of the role that the basal ganglia plays is knowing when we’re supposed to be awake and aroused and with it.

And when we’re supposed to be asleep. So if this area of Andrea’s brain is stimulated from something like caffeine or too much blue light from our lovely glowing rectangles, or a lack of exposure to bright light during the day, or even stress, she might not know that she’s supposed to be winding down right now.

Because her Basil Ganglia is like, Hey, it’s time to be awake. Okay, so that’s a pretty important part of the brain filled with endocannabinoid receptors. So now let’s move on and let’s go hang out in the cerebellum. We’re surrounded by all of these cannabinoid receptors.

They’re super densely populated in the cerebellum. And scientists think that the cerebellum plays a big part in that transition of falling asleep. Now, it also has a major role in language and thoughts. So think about that, if you’re trying to fall asleep and the part of your brain that is in control of that a big player in language and thoughts, that monkey mind might be coming into play here as well.

If it’s overactive in Andrea right now, she might have a hard time falling asleep because of things going on in the cerebellum, right? Does that make sense? 

So now let’s move on into the dorsal spinal cord regions where the brain receives this information from Andrea’s body about whether or not she’s feeling pain, right? This is a huge reason that people use cannabis for sleep is because they’re experiencing pain and can’t fall asleep.

Now we can barely turn around in here because again, there are so many cannabinoid receptors. So she’s feeling pain from her body in this region. She could be having a hard time falling asleep. Now let’s go into one of my favorite parts of the brain. This is one of the oldest parts of the brain, the brain stem. There are no cannabinoid receptors in here. It is almost spookily empty of endocannabinoid receptors. You might be asking yourself, why are there none in here? What’s going on?

We just talked about all these places where tons of receptors, but this is empty. And that’s a good thing because even if Andrea tonight were to take a ton of THC, a ton, I mean an actual ton of THC, as much as she could possibly consume, she might feel like she’s dying, but because the part of her brain that regulates her vital life processes doesn’t have a lot of these receptors in it she’s going to be just fine. Her heart is going to continue to beat. She’s going to keep breathing. She’s going to be physiologically fine. So there’s really nothing to see in here except for the fact that Andrea can’t die from taking too much cannabis when she tries to fall asleep tonight.

So let’s turn around and take the bus back out. Okay, Andrea, you’re still awake now. So before you go to sleep, did that make sense? Do you have any questions about any of that? 

Andrea Meharg: No, I love that. And I also want to say take that opiates because the brainstem is filled with opiate receptors, which is why you can die of an overdose of those types of medications.

Corinne Tobias: Hit the road opiates, we’ve got a new friend in town. Okay. So now that we know some of these structures in the brain that are really filled with these receptors, and we know a little bit more about their role in you falling asleep,, staying asleep, processing your memories.

Let’s talk about what happens when certain cannabinoids are introduced to the body and introduced to the brain that have an impact on these brain structures. So let’s start out by saying that Andrea decides to take some CBD for sleep. Well, if she takes a big enough dose, or if she takes CBD consistently, she’ll have more of her natural endocannabinoids rolling around in that, in that beautiful brain of hers.

Now remember, endocannabinoids are our body’s natural way of creating balance in the endocannabinoid system. So she’s taking CBD, more of her own balancing molecules are interacting with those receptors in all the places and creating homeostasis in those areas of the brain. So you could see why CBD could potentially help with sleep at the right consistent dose, right?

Andrea Meharg: Yeah. And we talked about this last time on the podcast, that finding the right dose of CBD for all things, including sleep. It is a journey. 

Corinne Tobias: It is a journey. It won’t be like taking an Ambien. The odds of it just knocking you out or turning off your monkey mind completely are really low, but it could help create that balance and that homeostasis.

If you’re consistent. So now let’s say that Andrea decides to take THC. Right? THC is one of the most commonly used cannabinoids for sleep. People use it in a variety of ways. They either smoke it or take it in edibles form. There are a lot of ways to use THC. Now, if Andrea were to happen to take the perfect dose for her the THC will go in and plug into those receptors and those area in the brain and in other areas of the brain and body. And it will mimic that homeostasis that your body naturally creates. And she’ll drift off to sleep easily. She’ll have some pleasant dreams. She’ll still solidify her memories and she’ll wake up without feeling groggy.

How’s that sound? 

THis might not be an all the time thing. It doesn’t seem to work that way. It seems that like with all sleep aids, THC is best used occasionally while you do the things that it takes to get your endocannabinoid system back into balance naturally, which we’ll talk about in a minute.

Plus Andrea, if you don’t get the perfect dose for you, you might have a hard time getting into or spending time in your REM cycle, right?

So that rapid eye movement cycle that is. We don’t know why we need it, but it seems to be very critically important to getting a good night’s sleep. You could also increase your anxiety or wind up in a thought spiral. You might have a hard time solidifying your knowledge. Maybe that hippocampus gets overactive and starts misfiring all of the things that you learned and experienced throughout the day. Again, it’s a very mysterious process, but you might wake up feeling like what happened yesterday.

What did I learn about that thing? It might be a little bit foggy for you. You might have a hard time having dreams, which might be beneficial, which we’ll talk about in a minute, but also might not be beneficial. I mean, because what are dreams? We don’t even know. They might be real important. We have no idea.

And you might wake up feeling groggy, even if you had a full night’s sleep. So the point of getting good sleep is to wake up the next day, feeling rested. And like you’ve processed and you’ve recovered your body and your mind. You might end up waking up feeling not that way. If you’ve taken too much THC, or if you’re doing this too consistently, does that make sense?

Yeah. 

Andrea Meharg: I find when I specifically, when I take too much THC and edible form, I will stay up at night and I’m, I’m not upset or anything. I’m just spinning on like happy thoughts and I’ve got like all these plans and stuff, but I’m lying in bed and then I wake up the next morning exhausted and groggy and like with no energy to do all those cool plans I thought about.

So yeah, it’s the dose. The dose is always. It’s always the thing. 

Corinne Tobias: Yeah, it’s absolutely about the dose. And we have this handy dandy dosage tracker that we released last week on Wake and Bake. So if you’re struggling with that bit, please make sure to track your dose and figure out what works for you. But a higher dose isn’t necessarily bad. And let’s dig into that a little bit, because if you take a higher dose, maybe that’s what’s required for you to feel less pain. 

It might be required for you to bring balance and to quiet down some of the activity inside the dorsal spinal cord regions, right? If you were having night terrors, or you were having really complex, complicated dreams that would wake you up at night and have you ruminating over what it all means.

That actually might benefit from more THC. For example, people who are experiencing PTSD or CPTDS can be a really nuanced thing that you have to work with because you might want to to down some of those dreams in order to get higher quality sleep.

So it does seem like there’s really a trade off that happens when it comes to this particular molecule, but just keep in mind as you’re on this journey, that longer high dose use of THC for sleep might not be a good option in the long run. And when I’m talking about high dose use of THC, I’m not talking about, It in terms of milligrams, right? You might need high doses in terms of milligrams. It might not affect you in the same way.

When I say a high dose, I mean, being really high from THC. So like, you’ll know the difference between when you’ve had a high dose for you, because a joint for Andrea and a joint for me is very different. It’s not a high dose for her. And for me. I am in outer space. I’m in the Magic School bus. 

So there’s no, there’s nothing wrong with needing higher doses. There’s also nothing wrong with being really high. Sometimes it can be completely transformative. It just might not be good for your endocannabinoid system when it comes to sleep in the long run.

Does that make sense? 

Andrea Meharg: And that’s the same with everything. We don’t have a fix for sleep. There isn’t one out there. There’s not a pharmaceutical fix. There’s not a lifestyle fix. There’s not a cannabis fix. Although you did mention earlier that there are some things that we can do to support our endocannabinoid system into doing this balancing naturally.

Can you go into that really quickly? 

Corinne Tobias: Yeah, let’s go into that really quickly. And then I want to talk about some other lesser known cannabinoids because while there might not be a fix, there might be a mix. So let’s talk about some different things that we can do. And I love that. We’re going to talk about this before we continue this talk about cannabinoids, because you know, I am obsessed with different ways to balance out our end of cannabinoid system naturally.

So that as we use cannabis as a supplement we are moving towards a place where our system is coming back into balance, and we are improving what they call endocannabinoid tone. So if our focus is on the plant, and it’s on these molecules, we might be missing the forest for the trees. If our focus is on the endocannabinoid system, and how that works during sleep, and how that works in our brain and our body, then I feel that you have a better chance of having longer term solutions that work for you as your life changes.

And as, like you said, as sleep changes from you day to day. Now, Andrea, as you know, our endocannabinoid system was made beautifully, perfectly elegant in nature.

And if we were all living in little huts, eating natural foods and like, not like bombarded by artificial light and weird environmental toxins we’d probably be great at sleep. We’d all be like, Oh, cool. Well, the fire’s gone 

out. Like 

Corinne Tobias: that’s what it would be like, at least in my mind. And there are times in my life where I’m like, I’m going to do everything by candlelight.

You know this about me. I’m like, I’m like, I’m just going to cut everything and that will balance my endocannabinoid system. But that’s not realistic. I have a lot of candles that say that’s not realistic.

And so when we’re talking about bringing balance to the endocannabinoid system, we are talking about regular sleep hygiene, these things that you’ve heard again and again, it’s not sexy stuff.

It is avoiding screens at night. It’s not drinking caffeine too late in the day. It’s, you know, it’s really this basic wind down mentality. It’s again, it’s not sexy, but all of this stuff impacts the, and the cannabinoid system, and when we’re talking about an umbrella system that helps regulate every other system from the top down, it makes sense that these other things that we’ve studied that are good for sleep are also good for the endocannabinoid system.

Another part of this is getting movement, but not going absolutely batshit bananas in the gym. Okay. There’s like this middle ground that the endocannabinoid system seems to respond to. And I have one of those trackers of like strain and sleep that I’ve been doing little experiments on myself for the past you know, a couple of months or so. And one of the interesting things is it tells you like, don’t, if you’re going super hard, then you need to get more sleep. And there’s a balance there to the amount of activity and the type of activity that you get.

And so if you train super, super hard, your endocannabinoid system actually has a hard time recovering, needing more sleep, right? And if you don’t do anything at all, it also suffers. So there’s this really important middle ground to consider when you’re trying to get healthier and improve your health to not get so extreme about it and think I want to be jacked in 60 days. So I’m going to train, train, train, train, train. You you’re the odds of you having more struggles with sleep and recovering more poorly and having a detriment to your endocannabinoid system is much higher. 

Andrea Meharg: And now you’re going to talk about the thing I hate talking about.

Aren’t you? 

Corinne Tobias: Yeah, of course, I’m going to talk about the thing that you hate talking about because it’s one of the rare things that we know directly impacts the endocannabinoid system. And that is cold showers. Now, I know you guys have been hearing it from every bro scientists all over the internet, like 

cold plunge, do a cold plunge, 

Corinne Tobias: take a cold shower.

And yeah, it’s true. It does work for simulating all sorts of systems, not just dopamine but also this endocannabinoid system. And we think about. The benefits of cold showers and cold plunges, reducing inflammation, reducing pain, increasing energy. That’s all very intimately tied together in these systems that are, are all working together, right?

It’s not just one system over the other, but we do know that cold showers, cold plunges can help us sleep and they do impact the endocannabinoid system tone in the long run. So now Andrea is nodding her head like she’s 

Andrea Meharg: no, I’m still not never going to do them. So why don’t you tell me about some of the other minor cannabinoids that might help with sleep?

Because like, I’ll try all the other things to get better sleep, um, but I’m far more willing to try another cannabinoid than a cold plunge so dive in. 

Corinne Tobias: Oh yeah. No, I’m, you know, I’m not. It’s not. Judgment at all, because I’m the same way. I’m like, I’m going to have an afternoon coffee, but I’ll put some CBD in it.

And like, IT’ll calm me right down Yeah. Well, these aren’t the only two cannabinoids that can have an impact on sleep. I’m going to give this the big preface that we don’t have a lot of research and some of these cannabinoids, we don’t have really any research. We just kind of have an idea of how they work inside the human body. And so we can say, well, if it works this way in the human body, maybe it’ll work this way for sleep. So take this all with a grain of salt. We don’t have great data, but we do have one piece of amazing data that I’m very excited about around CBN. Now for the longest time, people were like CBN bro, it’s great for sleep.

It was like on all the gummies, sleep gummies, all these things. And we had no research that that showed that CBN was even good for sleep, but we finally have, as of 2023, a double blind paper saying that CBN is helpful for sleep, even if you take it alone, even without CBD. So there is evidence that CBN can be good for sleep.

Do not stop this podcast and go, okay, great. I’m going to go try CBN now, because there’s a lot that you have to know about choosing a CBN product. CBN can be absolutely gross. So don’t go to your dispensary and go, oh, I need something with CBN and just take whatever they give you. First, I want to ask Andrea, what do you look out for?

What questions do you have to ask when it comes to choosing a CBN product? 

Andrea Meharg: I think it’s going to be really interesting to see if people can actually get CBN products because almost every product I see that has CBN in it also has something else. Almost all of the time it’s THC because, there’s lots of like anecdotal research out there that THC and CBN can be a really good sleepy time combo. CBD and CBN is new to me and exciting. But because they’re almost always packaged together it’s hard to like parse, whether it’s the THC helping you sleep or the CBD or the CBN. Um, so first of all, see if you can find something that’s separate just CBN so that you can try it or add it into your current routine and see if it helps. And then, like you said, Oh my God, some CBN is made super naturally. It’s not actually made on the plant. It’s a degradation product of THC. It like degrades into CBN over time. So you can quote unquote, make your own CBN by like leaving a jar of THC flower at the back of your cupboard.

I’m pulling it out a couple of years later, and a lot of that THC will have changed into CBN. 

Corinne Tobias: You can also decarboxylate and speed up that process more.

Yeah, you 

Andrea Meharg: can do a double decarb. It’ll turn a lot of the THC into CBN. So like, try to make your own basically. Um, and part of the reason that we’re kind of like herping on this particular thing is that CBN, just like a lot of the other minor or rare cannabinoids like Delta eight THC or THCO acetate, a lot of these are actually produced by CBD by product.

Um, and it’s like gross and disgusting. Please go listen to the episode on Delta eight THC. Um, so you gotta just, you gotta do your due diligence again. 

Corinne Tobias: Yeah, I wouldn’t, I don’t think that I would buy a CBN product from a store. I would DIY that one.

 Granted, you’re not going to know how much is in it. You’re not going to have an idea. So you’re going to have to really start low and go slow, especially if you’re trying to use it for sleep and you don’t want to have an experience that would keep you up, but.

It would be very difficult to find the answers you’re looking for, especially in a dispensary system . So we’re still in the space where we don’t have a, a product that we can go, go try this CBN, but when we do, and when we figure out more about CBN and how to source it, we’ll make an episode about it.

So those are those top three cannabinoids. We have real research on those three. We know that they have an impact on sleep, even though it’s very nuanced and very mysterious, but we also have, oh, I don’t know, more than 150 other compounds in cannabis, including acidic cannabinoids 

So back on the Tammi Sweet podcast we did in this season, she mentioned that CBDA can play a huge role in, in serotonin and serotonin we know plays a huge role in sleep. So is there any reason to incorporate CBDA, if you’re, if you’re starting to look at cannabinoids for sleep? 

Andrea Meharg: Yeah, we don’t have, this is a cannabinoid that we have like almost no research on in humans. But because CBDA and THCA both work at extremely low doses, so you can take much less THCA or CBDA than their decarbed counterparts it’s wonderful to just try it to, to incorporate it into what you’re already doing. Maybe add like a pea sized nug of CBD flower into your tea at night and see if that helps you relax from some of those thoughts or CBDA can also help with pain. So. We don’t know, we can’t say like, Hey, there is research on this, but for sure, for the, for the small amount of time and energy and money that it would cost you to try both of those, I think if you’re struggling with sleep, like, yeah, with that schedule that we talked about when we’re talking about dosing, like try it for a week and then increase the dose a little bit and try it for another week and just give it the good old college try. 

Corinne Tobias: And when we’re talking about this, we’re talking about not heating up cannabis. It’s really that simple. I know we kind of just blasted into acidic cannabinoids, which took our nerdiness scale to like a seven or eight, but it only means that you’re not setting it on fire.

You’re not vaporizing it. You’re not decarboxylating it. So this is unheated. You can put it in water because the acidic cannabinoids tend to be much more water soluble than the decarboxylated or heated cannabinoids. Now, one of the cool things about acidic cannabinoids and non heated cannabinoids like THCA and CBDA, is that they might have a more direct impact on the brain and the things that are happening in there, uh, because of their ability to pass through the blood brain barrier much more readily. They seem to be working better at lower doses. This is a real frontier of these cannabinoids. And all it means is skipping the step of setting it on fire or heating it up for a long period of time. Plus THC a looks like it might have neuroprotective and anti inflammatory actions in the brain again these are animal studies and not human studies So we don’t know for sure but It could have a positive impact on the brain and CBDA might be helpful with things like anxiety. Again, we don’t have the studies to back this up, but these are very safe. You’re not going to take too much of them because remember when we looked around in your brainstem, there were no receptors that could shut down your breathing or your heart.

So these are safe options for you to explore if you have access to legal cannabis and hemp, 

Andrea Meharg: Okay. So knowing everything that you know, Ms. Frizzle slash Corinne Tobias, what are your kind of overarching thoughts on using cannabis for sleep?

Corinne Tobias: To me, there’s a mindfulness component to it because you have to be paying attention and you have to be realistic and reasonable with what you expect from this plant.

You have to be willing to take a journey, right? You have to be willing to get on the Magical School Bus in your own body and see what’s working for you and see how it’s impacting you. I mean, this is the best tool that we have. We have all this cool research and it’s awesome, but you are your own Guinea pig.

You are your own experiment in so many ways, and you’re the only one who can figure out what works for you especially when it comes to dynamic plant medicines like this. So what I took away from doing this research was that, yes, there are all these magical parts of the brain and there’s this mysterious dance of sleep and, and information processing and relaxation that happens, but it still boils down to living in a way that’s closer to what we would as humans be doing naturally, which means that natural sleep hygiene stuff, and also figuring out what works for you in cannabis, maybe starting with those acidic cannabinoids, maybe not going for the THC first, even though that’s the one that we’re all most familiar with, but experimenting with some of these other things.

 And there is this mindfulness component, and I think it’s about taking the gifts that cannabis gives you, which is muscle relaxation, pain reduction it can reduce anxiety, you know, all of these beautiful gifts and tuning into what they are and allowing those to expand within your own body by using your own attention, by being your own Miss Frizzle, by getting on your own Magic school Bus, as you’re going to sleep and tuning into what’s actually happening and let it happen, let it expand.

And so I think that that’s the most impactful thing that I learned, even though there are all these cool facts about it was that it kind of all boils down to this, like paying attention to what’s happening in your own body and feeling that and experiencing a sense of gratitude for that while it’s doing its thing. 

 I love that. You’re not just depending on the plant. You’re, you’re depending on the magic of the plant, along with the magic of your body and the magic of your attention to do the work altogether.

Corinne Tobias: It’s pretty amazing. And for those of you who have a hard time doing that, who have a hard time tuning into your own body, because you’re like, but then what about this shopping list? And what about this? I put on my meditation teacher voice, which I like to do as often as I possibly can. And I made a cannabis for sleep meditation.

So that’s coming soon. And I hope that that helps. If you do have monkey mind and you want to be tuning into how this plant is working in your own body and whether or not it helps you to sleep, right. You can, you can experiment with a more guided way to do that. 

Andrea Meharg: I love that. And also if people are listening right now in November, 2023, they’re going to get points for listening to this podcast and listening to the sleep meditation. Can you tell us more about that?

Corinne Tobias: Yeah. So right now in November of 2023, you can get, like Andrea said, you can get all these points for listening to podcasts and doing other cannabis education and cannabis wellness activities. If you go to the link below, you can enter to win and these points add up and you get entries to win an Ardent FX, our favorite decarboxylator butter maker, edibles maker. It’s like, I think they call it the easy bake oven for adults, which we, we love. And we’re also giving away a scholarship to the Certified Cannabis Educator Program with the Business Bundle. So you get everything that you need to learn how to talk to people about this plant and get paid doing it.

Andrea Meharg: Oh my gosh. Other people can go out there and be Ms. Frizzles of cannabis. This is going to be amazing. 

Corinne Tobias: Oh my God. Yeah. If you feel like you’re, when I said you can be a Ms. Frizzle and you were like, oh my gosh, then you’re our people come being nerds, come join us, like figure out new ways to talk to people about this, right?

The Ms. Frizzle thing. It’s silly. It kind of seems gimmicky. But if you’re leaving this podcast and you’re like, wow, I. When, when you go use cannabis for sleep tonight, you have a different experience with it. Think about how you could do that for other people. 

And if you’re like, I don’t want to do a contest, but I want to do this you can also sign up for the program. you can do this in as little as three months and it’s now accredited by the International Practitioners of Holistic Medicine. And we’re very excited about being able to bring this into, you know, so many different new places, so many different new communities.

So join us. Come join us. Yeah. And then now bloopers. There’s a lot. That was a blooper. Yay. 

Andrea Meharg: We’re finally fucking doing the Miss Frizzle podcast. Are you dying right now?

Corinne Tobias: Do you see my outfit? I was like, look, it has all these G’s and D’s and B’s and C’s. I didn’t even notice. I’m going to find a dress and I’m going to have someone do like THC molecules and all the things so that when I do my workshops, I get to dress like Miss Frizzle. It’s like becoming a thing.

Andrea Meharg: I can, I will fly there for 

Corinne Tobias: that. Oh my God. Oh yay. Well then I’ll definitely do it.

Andrea Meharg: Can you please put in the folds of my brain, like fun stuff, like, I don’t know, doughnuts, moose, weed. 

don’t know. Like just, 

Corinne Tobias: I’m going to be all Canadian hockey sticks, maple syrup, universal health care. I’m just going to be in there. 

Leveraging what you’re experiencing with this, the gift that cannabis cannabis, cannabis, no, I can’t be saying cannabis wrong. Now all the cannabis people are going to be like, what an idiot.

Andrea Meharg: We’re unsubscribe, unsubscribe.

Corinne Tobias: there is no shotgun on a bus, Andrea, get in the back. My lizard rides shotgun.

Sorry, I got weird there for a second.

You’re okay. I love that you’re such a weirdo. 

Got phlegm.

I’m out of saliva

yeah,

it’s

okay.

out. Like 

Cause her bangle basil glint. Because,

Quit licking your vagina, Ralph.

Her heart’s going to keep breathing.

Their nipples like are so well covered.

I’m creating some space for your brain to get loose.

Andrea Meharg: Look at these stoners. They’re advocating for loose brains on the internet. 

I’m so excited for real. 

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